NCC clauses are not final-Banda
- Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:47
- Breaking News
- 17 comments
The National Constitutional Conference (NCC) has maintained that the clauses it is adopting are not final.
NCC Chairperson Chifumu Banda said the clauses in the draft will be published so that the citizens have a look at what is contained in the document.
Banda said he is happy with the people’s comments on the deliberations as this shows that they are keenly following the process.
He advised Zambians to continue commenting and show interest in the constitution making process as their input is cardinal.
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Iwe chi Chifumo Banda, you will be held accountable for setting Zambia ablaze!
you are setting fire on the nation!!
The problem is you keep introducing clauses which were not even submitted in the 1st place. Th NCC is overstepping its bounds and is turning out to be a white elephant. This should be stopped. It has actually vindicated those who refused to participate.
Dull NCC together with its chaiperson and who ever is there. You are setting the country on fire if you become so careless NCC. Clauses which were not submitted should not be entertained while those which were sumbmitted should be adopted period. Chifumo Banda listen before Zambia is set on fire. Dont take people for granted NCC.
There is nothing wrong with chifumu Banda, people let us learn to understand that man is just the chairman to see things work out in tghe right manner according to people’s expectations.Let us learn to read between the lines.We are able to read and write because we were taken to school for a purpose.
The NCC is doing its work according to what the Zambians petitioned the Mung’omba Constitutional Review Commission when there were going round the country and diaspora. I find it interesting that we have easily forgotten what we petitioned Mung’omba. Chifumu is right by saying that the constitution is not final but not until its subjected to the constituency assembly. NCC is doing its work and for those in doubt, the draft constitution is their and you can compare to what is going on and make an informed decision. The proposals in the Mung’omba costitutional review report are what we need if transparency, accountability and good governance is to be attained. Will meet at the constituency assembly and for now lets comment objectively.
Volcanologist,
you pretend as if you know all what is in the draft consitution and yet not.
For instance, ‘graduate degree clause’ is not in Mung’omba draft constitution, but has coming in through the window.
The 50% + 1 vote is in the draft constitution, but Banda and his collegues wanted and still wants to through it through the window. Why should we go for refrendum for this particular clause when we said we needed 50%+1 in the last constitution draft? Tell me whats going to change apart from embarassing the government when we vote? Thats what we want, 50%+1, yes.
We never mentioned anything on graduate as a prerequisite for presido. What we said is that whether RB has a fake degree or not, its not our problem, as long as he is a grade 12/form five.
The NCC has put RBs qualification as a benchmark and not leadership qualities which he struggles to attain.
This NCC is a total failure, no wonder credible men and women refused to be part of it. We know every member who has participated and when the right time comes they will be held accountable.
Chifumu is right. The Constitutional process goes through various stages. NCC is one of the stages demaded by the people in their submissions to Mungomba. The people did not say NCC should be rubberstamp. They have full mandate to change what was proposed. On the Degree clause- the people who submitted in principle agree for the need of an accademic qaulification (Grade 12). To change this qaulification to a first degree is not as perverse as some people are trying to make out. The principle of accademic qaulification was the people’s demand and the degree is a mere detail of what was agreed in principle. Other stages to come are further input from the people; NCC further deliberations; refferendum and finally Parliament discusses and votes. Obviously Chifumu is right when he says nothing is as yet final.
Let me commend the ZWD who are doing their best to post our comments here.
They are unlike the other news providers, including the supposedy very popular privately owned newspaper.
I have posted comments for example on the Post following leading stories, but sadly my comments have not featured whatsoever.
Thank you ZWD once again.
Aristoto, how are you blogger. Guess we are not better placed to know everything. If you read the arguments, you will believe me that some argument are unfounded includung yours on the degree clause. The debate on the degree clause started even before Mung’omba went round and i remember to ve petitioned the commissionners that time that we need leadership to suit the 21st century and am one of those who petitioned for the degree clause though is might not be in the draft but now it has been brought back, thank God.Imagine Aristoto having a leader who is ill qualified leading Zambia in the face of technological advancement and globalisation? Am aware that even a degree holder as leader alone is not adequate less we attach a level of some education to our political offices that we will see sanity in the political field. Because of the low calibre of most politicians, we spending more time argueing on trivial issues. Chiluba can be said to ve appointed the best brains in his cabinet, but because he did not ve the right education background, he was made and did things undesirably. But if he had some degree of education like we are proposing, am sure he was going to act different. We can go on comparing our leaders and am sure you are able to tell which leader of Zambia used the head unlike gone by the wind.
You know what Aristoto, it is interesting listening to international media houses who are saying that the clause is a wake up call for Africa and it has been received positively. We are a trendsetter and forget that Volcanologist whats to disadvantage certain individuals but setting stardands to who should rule me tommorow. Aristoto, this is not stone age throwers were given power but the power of democracy where we set rules and laws. It is important to note that NCC is within the mandate we have given them as tax payers and come constituency assembly Aristoto and Volcanologist must convince opponents to why we should have the either have the degree clause or not. Its pipo’s power.Am a strong believer of democracy, good governance and development for human development and not living in fear.
About the 50+1 clause to be the president, not even MMD will stop that and its there time at Mulungushi International Conference to say what ever they want but come constituency assembly, Volcanologist will say, wre is his clause of 50+1 in the pipo’s constitution and will definately convince many to support it and am happy that many bloggers are for it. It does not call for alarm Aristoto but to let the NCC come up with draft which you and Volcanologist will again have some input to it. Anyhow Aristoto, sorry that i had to mention you and its not in my culture mentioning Aristoto to avoid making pipo feel important when all mankind are important.
Volcanologist,
Our draft constitution doesnot talk about ‘degree clause’ as a qualification of presidential candidate.
Part iX executive, article 123 (1) (e) states and I quote: ‘ A person shall be qualified to be a candidate for election as President if that person HAS OBTAINED, AS A MINIMUM ACADEMIC QUALIFICATION, A GRADE TWELVE CERTIFICATE OR ITS EQUIVALENT’
So, which draft constitution are reading and refering to Volcanist? dont mislead those that have no access to information.
This clause has been modified to suit the incumbent presido. Imagine if he didnot have a degree were they going to be brave enough to say what they are saying? Why should we just be champions on paper but fail to show the world that Zambia is heaven on earth? why should we continue to walk with our heads down because of economic mismanagement which has nothing to do with degree? If we put our laws right everthing will just flow.
Remember what Obama said in Ghana concerning African leaders? ask the president of Liberia, he talked about the atitude of African leaders and the jungle laws we embrass. If Obama was to exchange seats with RB, he would fail to lead Zambia because of the bad laws. Osati tizibisamila mu ma degree. We would have started benefitting from RBs administration if your argument was anything to talk about.
Aristoto,
Am enjoying the argument but guess we are misunderstanding each other here. Am happy that you with draft constitution right next to you and am proud of you blogger hope we go further and ask the government to reduce the volumenous constitution into a pocket size one.
What i said was that yes i petitioned Mung’omba that the minimum qualification of a degree and the chapter in the draft does not read so but vwhat you have rightly quoted. But my argument is that Volcanologist and Aristoto must argue by proposing and opposing as it were to why have the clause or not at the constotuency assembly were pipo’s power will prevail. Its nice that the dabate is going on an indication that a pipo driven constitution is likely to be born. But what we need to do is to sensitise our rural communities that once an opportunity of the constituency assembly, no one should bulldoze and make them understand the importance of the clause both for and against. Am still for the degree clause Aristoto and this is just a transitional process taking us to a better Zambia, 30 years down the road.Let us not stick to the old school that you are born a leader, no but thinking objectively in this scientific world.
I wish to add to what Barak Obama said in Ghana,”Africa needs to strong institutions which shall promote good governance and democracy”.I totally agree with him and if you were to look at articles adopted by NCC, a good number a to fulfill that benchmark. And its only by having a well articulate head of state who will say, guys what does the pipo’s law say and not having a kwangala who will 100% rely on legal advisors but one with some understanding Aristoto.
Volcanologist
I am not against a graduate presido. In one of my postings I hinted that I would love to see Prof. Chirwa emerge as Presido, not because he is my former school mate, but because in addition to his qualification, I have known him to be a man of vision, honest and of high intergrity. The timing for this clause was bad. In any case I am talking about what is in the draft, not imagenary clauses.
In pychology no one is dull, but you have slow learners and fast learners. Most Zambians have been denied the opportunity to become graduates. Not every fast learner(bright student) has an opportunity to be enrolled in the University due to circumstances beyond their control. Education system in Zambia is pathetic.
I am one of the lucky ones to have observed how the education system is properly organised in SouthAfrica, having been schooled there. Just the school environment itself motivates you.
You cannot be talking about that clause when you have not put proper mechanisms in place. I have visited alot of higher institutions of learning in Zambia, its nothing to talk about. Its a shame. At one time we were among the best now we are the least in the quality of education.
If we want to develop, we have to put good laws that will deter leaders from stealing our resources (thats what Obama was diplomatically saying) When Richard Nixon was implicated in the watergate scandal, which by Zambian standards is not an offence, he was investigated and forced to resign, which he did.
We knew about Chilubas theiving after he left office, its a shame. That information should have been picked when he was still a president, and forced to resign there and then. (thats what Obama meant by strenthening institutions in question)
NCC is not addressing these issues. Our leaders will continue to steal and abuse our resources at the expence of a commonman.
2 questions for Banda; what are you going to do about the controversial clauses namely the 50+1 and the “degree” clause that ordinary Zambians have found unnecessary to be added to the constitution? secondly, disclose whn the referendum will take place, or is it gonna be merged with the population Census due August this year so tht we can have results by December??
And for good measure would you tell me (NY Giant) how much billions of Kwacha u and Ms. Mwangala Zaloumis have made out of NCC as personal emoluments?
Aristoto,
Am glad that we are almost arriving at a consensus on the degree clause. Am happy tp kearn that you have the understanding of how the education system is operating. We can not write off the Zambian education because in my own opinion, Zambia still produce the best students in the region and Africa at large. Have priviledge of knowing how the RSA education system operates because ve visited family living there with children going to RSA schools. That aside, i would like to put it to you Aristoto that some Zambians petitioned Mung’omba Constitutional review commission that for one to be a president.
Election of president
Submissions
8.2.2.1.1 Parentage clause i.e. not necessary to this debate
8.2.2.1.1 Other qualifications/disqualifications and i quote
An overwhelming number of petitioners said that there should be a minimum qualification for a presidential candidate (488). They proposed that presidential candidates should:
. be a Zambian citizen by birth;
. have a grade 12 certificate (most popular);
. have a college diploma;
. have a university degree;
. the list goes on(Page 299).
Further, the commission noted that it finds the qualification advance in respect to minimum education achievement and medical and physical fitness and the arguments thereof sound.
Unfortunately or fortunately, the commission recommended on minimum qualification that presidential candidates should have a minimum education attainment of grade 12 or its equivalent and be conversant with the official language of tyhe country (Page 303).
For me thats just a recommendation which NCC can say yes or no and consider other proposed qualifications on the same.So whats gonna happen, we shall enlighten citizens that this a good clause as itself is a motivation for every citizen to consider education as key to leadership and not otherwise.
I fully agree with you on the issue of improving the education system and this has been a debate even before the adoption of the degree clause. Yes, the education system must improve and guess we are seeing strides in that directions. Am happy to mention that the involvement of the private sector is contributing greatly to the education system in Zambia and its time we standardise the education systems unlike the happenings today. In RSA, you can acquire a masters degree in 12 months which is not the case here. We need to move with rest of the world eduaction systems.
Therefore, Arostoto, its not that the degree clause is here to disadvantage others who in the majority but adding value to who should be my president maybe Arostoto or Volcanologist because they meet the criterion. This will also attract a number of the intellects to join politics unlike now when it is full of lumpens, kwangalas who can do all sorts of things from violence to killing just to be voted into office. Lastly, we are still going to debate this clause at constituency assembly level if it is to be law.
Guys its simple let those who have degrees vote for the President us with diplomas and certificates will vote for Parliamentarians.
So the clauses are what? Temporal? And if they are being published for the public to comment on further why where you calling for a referendum for the 50 plus 1 clause?
Why has this once not so intelligent cairo road lawyer forgotten his humble beginings that he can now send two contradictory messages? So after they are published and the public makes a comment the NCC will reconvene to look at the comments?
Well I think this is great, in FTJs reign people made a killing under the guise of privatisation and liquidations, others are now even thinking they can be presido after milking the thin cow, in LPMs reign it was the fight against corruption that enriched a few and now the NCC will build houses for many…so it was first the consititution review commission where the Chair was secretly getting a salary because he ‘negotiated’ his perks, and now the NCC chairman eating..we shall then set up a task force to go over the comments of the people arising from the NCC findings….You know what lets just revert to KKS wisdom and let cabinet issue a white paper by crossing out what they dont like.
We need to be very angry as a people if we are ever going to make this country face the right direction, lest we be palvers of dead aid.